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many people i've spoken to through this week expressing disappointment that the current anc government hasn't done more to bring those people up. but certainly, the predominant feeling this week is one of mourning and of celebration of this great man, nelson mandela, and certainly, people will be looking forward to the next several days of commemoration in pretoria and at his hometown later this week. >> i was expecting that stadium to be packed, jam-packed. i know the weather was bad, it was raining, but there were a lot of empty seats there. was it simply because of the weather? >> reporter: i think it was because of the weather and maybe because people were worried about how difficult it would be to get to that stadium as well. mostly a logistical issue. they also had other viewing places across the country but also it might be that this has been several days in the making. the true emotional moment would have been on friday after the announcement came and also, we must remember that nelson mandela was sick for several months, in fact, bedridden, so south africans in some way were e
many people i've spoken to through this week expressing disappointment that the current anc government hasn't done more to bring those people up. but certainly, the predominant feeling this week is one of mourning and of celebration of this great man, nelson mandela, and certainly, people will be looking forward to the next several days of commemoration in pretoria and at his hometown later this week. >> i was expecting that stadium to be packed, jam-packed. i know the weather was bad, it...
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in other words the 80% of the population that is black has voted overwhelmingly for the anc. the opposition party has been predominately white. so unless or until south africa breaks out of that particular mold, it is difficult to bring about rapid change. so is it too much to ask, the people in townships, is it too much to ask of the government, 20 years of afc rule, to have brought about the dramatic changes that have improved the lives of the people in the townships? >> two issues here. twenty-first is the overall rate of economic growth has been disappointing. it's a little over 3% a year, that's substantially less. than say in china. the second is the educational system has failed the population. for reasons can are obscure. not very similar. about a quarter of the country's budget is on education. that being the case, why isn't the delivery very much better. >> that's a question we ask here in the united states. >> we do. >> so -- no one wants to be thought of as being pessimistic, or apisms so what degree of optimism do you have for the future of south africa. >> oh, p
in other words the 80% of the population that is black has voted overwhelmingly for the anc. the opposition party has been predominately white. so unless or until south africa breaks out of that particular mold, it is difficult to bring about rapid change. so is it too much to ask, the people in townships, is it too much to ask of the government, 20 years of afc rule, to have brought about the dramatic changes that have improved the lives of the people in the townships? >> two issues...
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not that many foreign leaders spoke, but a tribute to, in the castro case, the fact cuba did support anc and mandela, supported him in jail when ronald reagan did not. how is that viewed behind the scenes? very carefully or something that causes anxiety attacks in the white house and create political problems also? >> given the array of challenges that the president faces on a daily basis, i think this is low down on the anxiety scale. the truth of the matter is, i heard your conversation with gene robinson, i think you guys were quite right. it would have been odd if he had done anything other than shake castro's hand. he's always been of a mind, the president has been of a mind these things are less important than the substantive discussions behind them. i wasn't surprised he offered the handshake and i wasn't surprised that got everybody in a frenzy. >> so we will relax over that. it was noted. dull not dully noted. thank you for your perspective. >> thank you. >> secretary kerry's testimony begun on the hill, his thinks on iran sanctions coming up next. ♪ [ male announcer ] everyon
not that many foreign leaders spoke, but a tribute to, in the castro case, the fact cuba did support anc and mandela, supported him in jail when ronald reagan did not. how is that viewed behind the scenes? very carefully or something that causes anxiety attacks in the white house and create political problems also? >> given the array of challenges that the president faces on a daily basis, i think this is low down on the anxiety scale. the truth of the matter is, i heard your conversation...
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fidel castro was financially supporting the anc when the u.s. and other world powers were shunning them, some considered them a terrorist group. at some point the u.s. was not on the right side of history when it came to south africa. it is very fitting you have cuba's leader front and center, speen a speaking role there. is it possible there could be recness of cuba's role at that time that could alter perhaps the way the united states sees cuba today? >> i'm not sure i'd go that far, but i do think that any son mandela in his early years depended heavily upon a number of people we found odious in the united states, including moma gadhafi. if he'd been alive today, perhaps he would have spoken, as well. it speaks to the mandela journey that in the beginning he was regarded by the west, i about the united states, by britain, by margaret thatcher as a terrorist. but as we've learned over time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. i think he evolved and now we see him as a freedom fighter. just as we saw many people who fought to
fidel castro was financially supporting the anc when the u.s. and other world powers were shunning them, some considered them a terrorist group. at some point the u.s. was not on the right side of history when it came to south africa. it is very fitting you have cuba's leader front and center, speen a speaking role there. is it possible there could be recness of cuba's role at that time that could alter perhaps the way the united states sees cuba today? >> i'm not sure i'd go that far,...
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patron when he first came to johannesburg, he was a real estate broker in soweto, and he was just in the anc, wanted it to become a national mass movement. one day the door opened and a mass leader walked into my office. it was nelson mandela. >> yeah. >> that is so true. you know, it's interesting, people in south africa were telling me that you know, on this day, even sterategic in hi death because his final service is on sunday. we're going to go on sunday to qunu. the next day is a day of reconciliation. they pointed out to me even in his death he was strategic in giving people time. i thought it was an extraordinary observation. >> lovely. great to have you with us. >> great to see you. >>> now to the big story at home, more rough weather for millions today, another windy and cold morning in southern california. a big rig overturned on i-15 in fontana. some areas saw gusts yesterday topping 70 miles an hour. and a mix of snow and rain is making its way up the east coast. winter storm warnings are up for washington, philadelphia, baltimore, and wilmington, delaware. take a look at the je
patron when he first came to johannesburg, he was a real estate broker in soweto, and he was just in the anc, wanted it to become a national mass movement. one day the door opened and a mass leader walked into my office. it was nelson mandela. >> yeah. >> that is so true. you know, it's interesting, people in south africa were telling me that you know, on this day, even sterategic in hi death because his final service is on sunday. we're going to go on sunday to qunu. the next day...
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he said at an anc youth league conference in 1951, and i quote, "true, the struggle will be a bitter one. leaders will be deported, imprisoned, and even shot. the government will terrorize the people and their leaders in an effort to halt the forward march. ordinary forms of organization will be rendered impossible, but the spirit of the people cannot be crushed ntil full victory is won." this struggle became madiba's life. he was at the forefront of the radical change in the anc in the 1940's, advancing the long walk to freedom. he became a volunteer in chief during the defiance campaign in the early 1950's and became the first commander in chief of the anc's armed wing, umkhonto we sizwe, in the early 1960's. he paid dearly for his beliefs and actions through imprisonment. he stated in 1962, "i was made by the law a criminal, not because of what i had done, but because of what i stood for, because of what i thought, because of my conscience." arrested and sentenced to life imprisonment during the rivonia trial later in 1964, he never lost his fighting spirit. for 27 years, the sout
he said at an anc youth league conference in 1951, and i quote, "true, the struggle will be a bitter one. leaders will be deported, imprisoned, and even shot. the government will terrorize the people and their leaders in an effort to halt the forward march. ordinary forms of organization will be rendered impossible, but the spirit of the people cannot be crushed ntil full victory is won." this struggle became madiba's life. he was at the forefront of the radical change in the anc in...
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war and didn't have that significant blood shed and didn't have the call for revenge and in the new anc there are members and some younger who still want that, they want to take property back from whites in country and some are worried with mandela being gone less of a moderation of views. >> that is why he is a controversial figure and represents the future of anc and you see streets on the stadium and their names are being changed and some people who had english names on the streets that live for years and years are seeing the change happen and for some it's unsettling. >> this is a celebration and seeing more sadness now than you had earlier but it's here and hearing cheering in the background and we will be out here and we will keep on talking to people and we will send you back there in a few minutes. >> thank you, appreciate it, thank you very much. let's talk about what ali raised and morgan raised which is talking about south africa moving forward and also looking back as well. and you wanted to take issue with this idea of a civil war, right, in your mind, proud south african,
war and didn't have that significant blood shed and didn't have the call for revenge and in the new anc there are members and some younger who still want that, they want to take property back from whites in country and some are worried with mandela being gone less of a moderation of views. >> that is why he is a controversial figure and represents the future of anc and you see streets on the stadium and their names are being changed and some people who had english names on the streets...
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but like other early giants at the anc, zulus and mutombos, madiba disciplined his anger and channeled his desire to fight in the organization and platforms and strategies for action. so men and women could stand up for their god-given dignity. moreover, he accepted the consequences of his actions, knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i have fought against white domination. i have fought against black domination. i have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if need be, it is an ideal for which i am prepared to die. mandela taught us the power of action but he also taught us the power of ideas, the importance of reason and arguments, the need to study not only those who you agree with but also those who you don't agree with. he understood that ideas cannot be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. he turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid, because of his eloquence and
but like other early giants at the anc, zulus and mutombos, madiba disciplined his anger and channeled his desire to fight in the organization and platforms and strategies for action. so men and women could stand up for their god-given dignity. moreover, he accepted the consequences of his actions, knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i have fought against white domination. i have fought against black domination. i have cherished the ideal of a...
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anc,eputy president of the african national congress, the ruling party, the crowd was interrupting in an amazing jubilation. they were so happy that so many people had come to south africa to not only revere your the man that they loved so much that the fact that a south african man has become an international icon. absolute joy. and also the fact that south africa was able to pull this off over the last four days. they put together a very important event, with a lot of security issues as well. teams like we overcome that -- have overcome that. note,important thing to this national memorial service comes 20 years to the day since kerk wasla and fw de awarded the nobel peace prize. has de klerk book in yet? >> we know he will not be addressing the crowd. but we know who will be speaking -- president obama, we have , in china, the vice president will be addressing the crowd. i, cuba as well. and we talk about reconciliation. a lot of people from verizon walks of life and heads of state which we know already have some tensions brewing. i wonder if this is going to be a time where not onl
anc,eputy president of the african national congress, the ruling party, the crowd was interrupting in an amazing jubilation. they were so happy that so many people had come to south africa to not only revere your the man that they loved so much that the fact that a south african man has become an international icon. absolute joy. and also the fact that south africa was able to pull this off over the last four days. they put together a very important event, with a lot of security issues as well....
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but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if an ideal for which i'm prepared to die. [ cheers ] mandela taught us the power of action but also taught us the power of ideas. the importance of reason and arguments. the importance of to only study not only who you agree with but those who you don't degree with. he under stood ideas can't be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. he turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid because of his eloquence and passion but because of his training as an advocate. he used deca
but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together...
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is the anc portraying that vision? when you look at president zuma's track record it seem to have went from corruption scandal to corruption scandal. i think many are sick of that because mandela was very materialistic so a very interesting comparison, i think, between the kurn presidency where you're talking about huge upgrades to mansions and houses and huge blue light brigades and mandela did things very simply. i think south africans look to that as the man who just his post presidential house was built as the same model. he got the architectural plans of the last house he stayed in when he was in prison, the warden's house and he got that rebuilt. so that gives you an idea of the kind of man and presidency that he had. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> we are talking about the world leaders who are here. it is an unprecedented collection of world leader and family members here now are taking the stage. these are the younger generation of the mandela family, the grandchildren. >> there they are. >> let's listen i
is the anc portraying that vision? when you look at president zuma's track record it seem to have went from corruption scandal to corruption scandal. i think many are sick of that because mandela was very materialistic so a very interesting comparison, i think, between the kurn presidency where you're talking about huge upgrades to mansions and houses and huge blue light brigades and mandela did things very simply. i think south africans look to that as the man who just his post presidential...
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this is cyril ramaposa number two man in the anc, has gone on to be a successful businessman here in south africa. so we'll join the program and jump in here to describe events as we. -- as we find out they ae happening. >> -- succeed if we reach out to each other. this is the man that we have come to say farewell to. a man who has built our nation. in many ways, we are here today to tell madiba that his long walk is over, that he can finally rest, that he can enjoy the view of our beautiful country, of south africa. a view he discovered when he began walking the hills of his birthplace. his long walk is over, but ours is only beginning, and with t t that, as we walk down memory lane, i would like us now to do what he would have wanted us to do. that is, to open this memorial service with an interfaith opening prayer. i would like to call upon chief rabbi warren, the hindu faith, for the muslim faith and archbishop of the christian faith to come and give us opening prayers on an interfaith basis. please, go ahead, chief rabbi. >> god and king who is full of compassion, god of the spi
this is cyril ramaposa number two man in the anc, has gone on to be a successful businessman here in south africa. so we'll join the program and jump in here to describe events as we. -- as we find out they ae happening. >> -- succeed if we reach out to each other. this is the man that we have come to say farewell to. a man who has built our nation. in many ways, we are here today to tell madiba that his long walk is over, that he can finally rest, that he can enjoy the view of our...
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that's true in the anc of many leader. they made a sacrifice for the cause, and it took an economic toll on their families. >> we're seeing the outpouring in these days since mandela's death, but how distant a figure had he become in the country? >> not distant at all. i think nelson mandela was still the moral center. and many with their disappointment about the leadership of the anc and its more material orientation would refer back to nelson mandela. 2005, 2007, 2011, his presence was still important within the anc. you'll recall in 2013 the anc leadership took pictures with him to try to shore up their own presence. his activism in the party diminished even just over two years or so. >> we're going to be hearing from president obama later this morning. we'll also hear from several members of the mandela family. that is andrew melengheni, a president with nelson mandela in robben island. appears to be wrapping up again. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. we're here to mourn him in dignity. right now we woul
that's true in the anc of many leader. they made a sacrifice for the cause, and it took an economic toll on their families. >> we're seeing the outpouring in these days since mandela's death, but how distant a figure had he become in the country? >> not distant at all. i think nelson mandela was still the moral center. and many with their disappointment about the leadership of the anc and its more material orientation would refer back to nelson mandela. 2005, 2007, 2011, his...
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the anc at a point where they formed in 1961 decided to respond back violently. moreover, there was not just violence between the white regime and sort of the black movement, but also between different ethnic groups. there was the zulu that was also quite violent toward the group from nelson mandela's ethnic group. it was tension across society. >> even within mandela's own family. his former wife winnie mandela, often was called for supporting violence and mandela often expressed displeasure with that. >> he did. in a remarkable interview, however, he said, look, people are free to choose their routes, their particular methods of response. he made clear that the oppressor will determine how the oppressor responds. when asked about his affiliations or his affiliations with people that took up violence or armed struggle. he said, look that depends upon the method of response. the method of response depends on what the oppressor does. at the same time he was critical of the necklaces, of the violence opposed. he said this replicates the violence done to us in the n
the anc at a point where they formed in 1961 decided to respond back violently. moreover, there was not just violence between the white regime and sort of the black movement, but also between different ethnic groups. there was the zulu that was also quite violent toward the group from nelson mandela's ethnic group. it was tension across society. >> even within mandela's own family. his former wife winnie mandela, often was called for supporting violence and mandela often expressed...
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the goal for the anc was democracy. civil nonviolence and then he married his first wife in johannesburg and then was sent to prison. the national party government banned the anc. he was sent to prison repeatedly. his wife ended up leaving him then and 60 plus more were killed during a demonstration. 180 were wounded so he was sent to prison for that. charged with sabotage. charged with conspiracy and then after prison got out and became president of south africa. what we're looking at right now is the memorial service. you can see people there that are excited because they're celebrating really, the life of nelson mandela. i read an interesting quote that he said. he said when a man has done his duty to the people, he can rest in peace. i believe i have made that effort and that is therefore why i will sleep for eternity. pretty powerful. now our senior foreign affairs correspondence is there at the stadium right now. telling us what's happening on the ground. what an impact he made in the lives of so many individuals.
the goal for the anc was democracy. civil nonviolence and then he married his first wife in johannesburg and then was sent to prison. the national party government banned the anc. he was sent to prison repeatedly. his wife ended up leaving him then and 60 plus more were killed during a demonstration. 180 were wounded so he was sent to prison for that. charged with sabotage. charged with conspiracy and then after prison got out and became president of south africa. what we're looking at right...
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kwe heard from the deputy president of the anc, the african national congress, the party of mandela that helped end apartheid in south africa. we've seen a number of vips arrive, including our own president obama. there are six heads of state scheduled to speak today. president obama is first among them. we're told he'll talk for about 15 minutes about the impact of mandela in the world. let's talk about that crowd you mentioned. 100,000 people. the capacity of this stadium is just under 85,000. so certainly it appears to be packed overcapacity, despite the fact that it's been raining here all day. people were told to be five hours early. some we heard from were seven hours early waiting in the rain at 3:00 in the morning just to make sure they were able to get in. ross. >> thanks for that, b tracie. if you've just joined us, u.s. futures are indicating we're going to get a tick higher again this morning, following a modest climb higher on monday. the dow is currently implied higher about 21, the s&p up almost 3 points and the nasdaq up 7. european equity ves moved modestly high after th
kwe heard from the deputy president of the anc, the african national congress, the party of mandela that helped end apartheid in south africa. we've seen a number of vips arrive, including our own president obama. there are six heads of state scheduled to speak today. president obama is first among them. we're told he'll talk for about 15 minutes about the impact of mandela in the world. let's talk about that crowd you mentioned. 100,000 people. the capacity of this stadium is just under...
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and it was really difficult for the anc to get that. fortunately prevailed. because what happened in our country, 1995, you cannot describe in words. i had a sense it was -- but the weeks and the months later it was such a healing moment for our sport. and mr. madiba sensed that. >> he was wearing your jersey with the number 6 on it. >> so he didn't tell you in advance he was going to wake your jersey? >> you can imagine you are playing in the biggest match you'll ever play in in your life and the emotion is going through you as a captain. you focus on making sure the guys aren't too focused, too tense. >> what mr. mandela said to me there, i wanted to hug him. he said to me, thank you very much what you've done for this country. i couldn't believe it. i said, mr. mandela, thank you for what you've done for this country. >> and when you saw him in your jersey, what did you think? >> i bit my lip so hard. i wanted to cry. honestly, i was ready to go play and we didn't know he was going to come into the changing room. he walks in and has this on. unbelievable.
and it was really difficult for the anc to get that. fortunately prevailed. because what happened in our country, 1995, you cannot describe in words. i had a sense it was -- but the weeks and the months later it was such a healing moment for our sport. and mr. madiba sensed that. >> he was wearing your jersey with the number 6 on it. >> so he didn't tell you in advance he was going to wake your jersey? >> you can imagine you are playing in the biggest match you'll ever play in...
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and those decisions he made, those difficult decisions he made after sharpeville, when the anc had been a peaceful protest out of, you know, what the other leaders had said. it was a peaceful -- he made that decision to move to violence and to do that. then when he comes out of prison, the complete opposite of that. when everybody was thinking the country was on the tipping point of a blood bath, mandela paved the way for peace and forgiveness. >> right. do you feel like as an actor playing a role like that, that you achieved some emotional insight into the kind of dexterity that allowed mandela to move through these tremendously different phases, from enemy of the state to head of state? >> i mean, yes. i mean, obviously, you know, there's a certain amount of license that's given to the writer that actually has to do a lot of the construction of the sort of, the emotional journey that the audience go along on, and i certainly bring along that, help that journey along, but the truth is about this story, it's his true story, you know? our job was really editors, to figure out what part o
and those decisions he made, those difficult decisions he made after sharpeville, when the anc had been a peaceful protest out of, you know, what the other leaders had said. it was a peaceful -- he made that decision to move to violence and to do that. then when he comes out of prison, the complete opposite of that. when everybody was thinking the country was on the tipping point of a blood bath, mandela paved the way for peace and forgiveness. >> right. do you feel like as an actor...
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and it was as the leader of the anc that he took part in those historic negotiations. i say that, mr. speaker, particularly because i think it's important to recognize it when some of the tone of what has been said for all the best and most well meaning of reasons not so much here today, but in comments about him is almost as if he was somehow i above politics. of course, he became admired and revered, quite rightly. but he wasn't above be politics. he was practicing politics. he was engaged in politics. and it was through politics that the transformation of south africa was secured. like many here, i had the opportunity to meet him on a number of occasions, and one i particularly recall in the these days was when in 1998 i attended the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the signing of the gap. seated in the hall, i heard this tremendous commotion at the rear. the delegates from south africa had arrived, and a kind of wave passed through the hall as delegates from every country in the world rose spontaneously to applaud him. and i was both honored and humbled whe
and it was as the leader of the anc that he took part in those historic negotiations. i say that, mr. speaker, particularly because i think it's important to recognize it when some of the tone of what has been said for all the best and most well meaning of reasons not so much here today, but in comments about him is almost as if he was somehow i above politics. of course, he became admired and revered, quite rightly. but he wasn't above be politics. he was practicing politics. he was engaged in...
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sort of knee-jerk reaction against any sort of antiestablishmentarian action such as that taken by the anc, but if you're going to put nelson mandela in that terrorist category, you'd have to put george washington there for rebelling against the british in the name of freedom. i mean, that's -- >> gene, suppose there was a country where blacks held the whites in servitude, made them carry passbooks, wouldn't allow them to do anything. do you think somebody might be looking to their second amendment rights to try to change this? >> yeah. >> familiar. >> it sounds like it's a different standard, like this woman out in nevada -- "i might have to use my second amendment rights." suppose the president was from another tribal group or a different racial ethnic group and you had no rights. do you think you might resort to those second amendment? the idea of saying he resorted to violence is like saying george washington resorted to violence. >> exactly, exactly, exactly. that's the parallel that comes to mind. and look, you know, nelson mandela and his memory will live on aeons, centuries beyond
sort of knee-jerk reaction against any sort of antiestablishmentarian action such as that taken by the anc, but if you're going to put nelson mandela in that terrorist category, you'd have to put george washington there for rebelling against the british in the name of freedom. i mean, that's -- >> gene, suppose there was a country where blacks held the whites in servitude, made them carry passbooks, wouldn't allow them to do anything. do you think somebody might be looking to their second...
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didn't feel that the government and the governments of western europe the at the time supported the anc and the antiapartheid cause joie. >> world leaders coming to pay their respects to nelson mandela, they are the poorest people of south africa whose lives were so impacted by what nelson mandela did. cause. this is the country where 85% of the population, the black population had access to virtually nothing while only a small percentage had access to education and property and wealth. you know in the old days under apartheid blacks couldn't live in the city centers where i am now, they would come in on a daily basis. one of those outsecurities was alexandra township, now fully part of it. just beyond alexandra is the suburb of sandton, probably the richest place on the entire continent, more millionaires in sandton than anywhere else. i went, it wasn't good for 70,000 anyway, but at least double that number live there and some say maybe 3 quarter of a million people live there. there are some houses that the post-apartheid government built, they are small? they have electricity, the s
didn't feel that the government and the governments of western europe the at the time supported the anc and the antiapartheid cause joie. >> world leaders coming to pay their respects to nelson mandela, they are the poorest people of south africa whose lives were so impacted by what nelson mandela did. cause. this is the country where 85% of the population, the black population had access to virtually nothing while only a small percentage had access to education and property and wealth....
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the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which is orchestrated by the soviet union. they said we've got to deal with these folks. we've got to meet with them. and i said baloney. >> and there were plenty of republican critics in 1990 when mandela was released from prison and addressed a joint session of congress. congressman tom delay said, quote, nelson mandela is no friend to liberty, democracy, or human rights. and congressman william danmeyer said nelson mandela's appearance before this body is a national disgrace. nelson mandela is no martin luther king. he is more like h. rap brown or willie horton. many republicans may embrace mandela today, but let's not rewrite history. in fact, some still attack him for accepting help from communist nation. but ignore the fact that for years america propped up the apartheid regime. i talked about that on "meet the press" yesterday. >> we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you
the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which is orchestrated by the soviet union. they said we've got to deal with these folks. we've got to meet with them. and i said baloney. >> and there were plenty of republican critics in 1990 when mandela was released from prison and addressed a joint session of congress. congressman tom delay said, quote, nelson mandela is no friend to liberty, democracy, or human rights. and congressman william danmeyer said nelson mandela's appearance before this...
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the most amazing story he told me was that on the night before they left prison he called all the anc prisoners together, saying, yes, they would be justified in acts of revenge, retaliation and retribution, but that there could never then be a strong, successful multiracial society, and that was his second great achievement -- to achieve change through reconciliation. but there was also a third achievement -- in refusing to rest or relax when he gave up the presidency, he had a third great, historic, far less acknowledged, achievement to his name. he wrote that in the first part of his life he had climbed one great mountain, to end apartheid, but now in his later life he wanted to climb another great mountain -- to rid the world of poverty, and especially the outrage of child poverty. i need speak only of what i saw in the times that i worked with him -- how quietly and without fanfare he went about his work. in 2005 i flew to south africa to meet nelson mandela to persuade him to come to london so that he could then persuade the finance ministers of the need for debt relief to relie
the most amazing story he told me was that on the night before they left prison he called all the anc prisoners together, saying, yes, they would be justified in acts of revenge, retaliation and retribution, but that there could never then be a strong, successful multiracial society, and that was his second great achievement -- to achieve change through reconciliation. but there was also a third achievement -- in refusing to rest or relax when he gave up the presidency, he had a third great,...
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mandela was founder of anc, african national congress, others south african national union. i was used to those men and a few women shouting and screaming at each other. they were really arch rivals. when mr. mandela came, he didn't raise his voice. he didn't argue with anybody. he didn't put anybody down. they were rivals. i had never met a south african who wasn't shouting and really angry all the time. i know he was angry, but he didn't use his energy foolishly. so it was a year after that he was imprisoned. i became friends with his wife then, winnie mandela. and we continued to support each other over the years and over the oceans. and she would tell me how he was. he wasn't vitt uperative with t guards. i was part of hillary clinton's delegates when he was inaugurated. i sat there and watched the guards, who had guarded him for 27 years, sitting in the right sights, in the best seats, invited by mr. mandela. not to say look how you treated me. i'm free now and i can ya ya ya at you, not that at all. in fact, he was gracious, welcome. he said, this is south africa. this
mandela was founder of anc, african national congress, others south african national union. i was used to those men and a few women shouting and screaming at each other. they were really arch rivals. when mr. mandela came, he didn't raise his voice. he didn't argue with anybody. he didn't put anybody down. they were rivals. i had never met a south african who wasn't shouting and really angry all the time. i know he was angry, but he didn't use his energy foolishly. so it was a year after that...
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very principled in the fact that if gadhafi, if the libyans or the cubans had given assistance to the anc in times of trouble, he felt loyal. he was very loyal to his friends. he would show the friendship back. what you are going to see is a mismatch of people. hemowho are celebrities, naomi campbell known for her temper and being a hot headed model sitting next to perhaps the head of iran. you know? there's a wonderful image when you can see about tomorrow. i think that is mandela as his p.a. said today, he's bringing people toothing in death as well as he did in life. >> we're looking at pictures of mandela dancing. he was somebody who celebrated life, as well, bringing so many people together. you just can't help but. >> i will and be inspired when you see these images. thank you. appreciate that. the image of bill clinton at robben island, what an amazing treat to see that up close. >> you've got world leaders going there, including he was very critical of george w. bush over the iraq war and bush is heading down there. he was critical of the united states way back in 2003. i think he
very principled in the fact that if gadhafi, if the libyans or the cubans had given assistance to the anc in times of trouble, he felt loyal. he was very loyal to his friends. he would show the friendship back. what you are going to see is a mismatch of people. hemowho are celebrities, naomi campbell known for her temper and being a hot headed model sitting next to perhaps the head of iran. you know? there's a wonderful image when you can see about tomorrow. i think that is mandela as his p.a....
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yesterday we saw a big anc rally. looks like they are setting up the stage for another. people here very sorrowful about nelson mandela but also very happy to celebrate what he did here in his life. >> this morning roads are still open around soccer city, the stadium where thousands are expected for tomorrow's public memorial. the government says 53 dignitaries have confirmed so far including president and mrs. obama, he is expected to speak, presidents bush, clinton and carter, ban ki-moon, south korea's prime minister, and canada's prime minister. nelson mandela was made an honorary canadian citizen years after his imprisonment on robben island. >> he was on robben island. he was not happy to be there but made the best of it. >> reporter: people continue to bring flowers and mementos to the gate and now we're getting more insight on his final hours inside. a friend who saw mandela two hours before he died says he was sleeping peacefully, not on life support but clearly near the end. >> when i arrived i was taken to his bedroom and i saw him, and i could see that he is
yesterday we saw a big anc rally. looks like they are setting up the stage for another. people here very sorrowful about nelson mandela but also very happy to celebrate what he did here in his life. >> this morning roads are still open around soccer city, the stadium where thousands are expected for tomorrow's public memorial. the government says 53 dignitaries have confirmed so far including president and mrs. obama, he is expected to speak, presidents bush, clinton and carter, ban...
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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anc theater gearing up to go public. most loyal customers buying shares. members of anc sub rewards program, they offered the same price as bank and wall street zugs institutions according to jerry lopez, so everybody getting in on the action. >> the only thing i care about is what this means for ticket prices. i am saying it is expensive to go to the movies. >> i don't think you will see prices go up. i think they are sharing the love. >> sharing the love, is that what they're doing? >> exactly. thanks, allison. coming up next on "new day," budget de ja vu. four days and counting until congress can get its act together this time around. accidence of u.s. leaders convergeing on south africa, paying tribute to nelson mandela. chris cuomo is there live. he is speaking which someone who knew mandela well. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. to help secure retirements and protect financial futures. to help communities recover and rebuild. for companies going from garage to
anc theater gearing up to go public. most loyal customers buying shares. members of anc sub rewards program, they offered the same price as bank and wall street zugs institutions according to jerry lopez, so everybody getting in on the action. >> the only thing i care about is what this means for ticket prices. i am saying it is expensive to go to the movies. >> i don't think you will see prices go up. i think they are sharing the love. >> sharing the love, is that what...
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. there's still more than 60% of the vote is what they get. they're being challenged from both left and right. that's going to be very interesting once we've gone through the next few weeks of memorialization as to how the dust settles on that. >> peter, 15 seconds, do you think -- i'm sorry about this -- but do you think mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of these moments which seems very, very profound, five years ago we will have forgotten him 1234. >> talking about the brand of mandela is the emphasis on the u.s. has been so much on the forgiveness that we have forgotten that he only forgave once he had actually overcome an unjust system and that the struggle in south africa continues to create a more just society. just as it did in the united states after legal segregation was abolished but there were still massive economic inequities. my hope is mandela is not too domesticated and sanitized now in his death. >> thank you all three of you. the two peters, a wonderful p
what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. there's still more than 60% of the vote is what they get. they're being challenged from both left and right. that's going to be very interesting once we've gone through the next few weeks of memorialization as to how the dust settles on that. >> peter, 15 seconds, do you think -- i'm sorry about this -- but do you think mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of these moments which seems very, very profound, five...
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the anc was a terrorist organization at one point. he has since said great things about nelson mandela. i like that what's been said about nelson mandela is said in the same way the pope said what he did. forgiveness and redemption. the pope's widely misinterpreted. and mischaracterized statements. it's active engagement. taking care of each other with solidarity and subsidiary. >> when you say about accusing darth vader, so to speak. this is not just about rhetoric. this is the policy that prevented the anc -- when they had the feet on the neck of nelson mandela -- >> he said, let's forgive. let's forgive dick cheney. let's forgive these people. i think one of the fascinating things about nelson mandela, he wasn't a saint. he made a lot of mistakes. he readily admitted it. he said, i'm not a saint unless you think a saint is a sinner who gets up and tries again every time. he changed an entire country and a world in what he said. done through acts of humility. like the pope has done. authentic acts of humility. >> i think -- one of t
the anc was a terrorist organization at one point. he has since said great things about nelson mandela. i like that what's been said about nelson mandela is said in the same way the pope said what he did. forgiveness and redemption. the pope's widely misinterpreted. and mischaracterized statements. it's active engagement. taking care of each other with solidarity and subsidiary. >> when you say about accusing darth vader, so to speak. this is not just about rhetoric. this is the policy...
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to what extent can they keep him, what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. they're still more than 60% of the vote is what they get, but they're being challenged from essentially both left and right. and that's going to be very interesting once we have gone through the next few weeks of memorialization and how the dust settles on that. >> 15 seconds, do you think that mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of those moments which seems very, very profound five years ago will have forgotening him? >> my fear, talking about the brand of mandela's legacy is that the west, the emphasis has been so much on his legacy, that once he forgive and had overcome an unjust system, and that the struggle continues to create a more just society, just as it did in the united states after legal segregation was aboll learned. my hope a s that mandela isn't too domesticated and sanitized now in his death. >> thank you all three of you. wonderful panel. up next, japan loves violent video games, just like america. but they have almost no gun violence. why? we'll explain o
to what extent can they keep him, what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. they're still more than 60% of the vote is what they get, but they're being challenged from essentially both left and right. and that's going to be very interesting once we have gone through the next few weeks of memorialization and how the dust settles on that. >> 15 seconds, do you think that mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of those moments which seems very, very profound...
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is skilled, largest hit by having part of the guerrilla army, the formation, the armed wing of the anc and the chief of intelligence. slate got this succession of people from different parts of the liberation movement taking over who had been out of the country for longer to time, or had been imprisoned for laundries of time. and to a certain extent that shape some of the mistakes that have been made in the last yea years. >> does thabo mbeki talk but what surprised we came back after all those years and except? >> want to thank you quickly learn when you interview people or politicians and political power is nothing ever surprise them. so the main thing that upset him every time i was into being and is, i would ask that question what would surprise you to what was unusual, what jumped out at you? every, i would say that he would lean back, take a look at me with a lizardlike look when you know you have irritated him. and that would come. know, my brother, never surprised. never admit you were surprised. i think the things that surprised thabo mbeki certainly who was the second preside
is skilled, largest hit by having part of the guerrilla army, the formation, the armed wing of the anc and the chief of intelligence. slate got this succession of people from different parts of the liberation movement taking over who had been out of the country for longer to time, or had been imprisoned for laundries of time. and to a certain extent that shape some of the mistakes that have been made in the last yea years. >> does thabo mbeki talk but what surprised we came back after all...
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a senior south african military intelligence person who said, quote, our strategy was to paint the anc as communist surrogates, the more we could present ourselves as anti-communists, the more people looked at us with respect. people you could have hardly believed cooperated with us politically when it came to the soviets. i mean, april, i was able to find that in like five minutes online. >> yeah. well, i want to put this in perspective. i talked to former president bill clinton yesterday. did an interview with him and he said, you know, with this issue about nelson mandela and his friendships and those who supported him, like gadhafi and ka castro, he said we don't look like ourselves view themselves. when we went on the tour, the historic africa tour with bill clinton in the second term and joburg, nelson mandela was asked a question about the friendships and nelson mandela himself said, look, if you don't like my friendship, something to this effect, you can go jump in the pool. >> yeah. >> nelson mandela himself said this. >> yep. >> and you have to remember, you know, that when p
a senior south african military intelligence person who said, quote, our strategy was to paint the anc as communist surrogates, the more we could present ourselves as anti-communists, the more people looked at us with respect. people you could have hardly believed cooperated with us politically when it came to the soviets. i mean, april, i was able to find that in like five minutes online. >> yeah. well, i want to put this in perspective. i talked to former president bill clinton...
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it is not that nelson mandela and the anc believed in violence. it is a people against whom the government was waging war took the action of self-defense. that's an internationally recognized strategy -- >> they took responsibility for violent acts. maybe we should put it that way. >> that's not what you said initially and it's really dangerous to keep perpetuating this articulation. nobody ever declared de clerk a terrorist. that's not what happened. what they did was to label the response to the violence. and that is dangerous because it's arguing and it's saying that mandela who by the way never renounced violence -- in the 27 years he was in jail, they said to him, renounce violence and we will free you and he said, i will not because that manifesto said, we have two choices, submit or die. and they said, we will never submit. >> we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, minimum wage workers in more than 100 cities protested and demanded a livable salary. but is raising pay the best way to really combat poverty in this country? the
it is not that nelson mandela and the anc believed in violence. it is a people against whom the government was waging war took the action of self-defense. that's an internationally recognized strategy -- >> they took responsibility for violent acts. maybe we should put it that way. >> that's not what you said initially and it's really dangerous to keep perpetuating this articulation. nobody ever declared de clerk a terrorist. that's not what happened. what they did was to label the...
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remember, the anc was a radical revolutionary organization. it drew a lot of support from communist countries, from revolutionary movements, castro, gadhafi, arafat. everyone thought he was going to be a left wing maniac. he was very pro business. he was very pro markets because he understood the future of south africa depended on the white business class staying there, being productive. interestingly, 27 years in prison he came out of an old left wing background. he didn't bust the budget spending money on blacks. because of that corporations trusted him. they understood that he didn't want to nationalize anything. he's asking us to behave ethically. i think it's a very good model for the future for third world leaders, particularly to look at. you can, you know, as long as you understand the power of the market, you can also understand that you can ask businesspeople to behave honorably. >> your prime time special "global lessons on guns" tomorrow night 7:00 p.m. right here on cnn. thank you. >>> coming up, elton john, shania twain, celine d
remember, the anc was a radical revolutionary organization. it drew a lot of support from communist countries, from revolutionary movements, castro, gadhafi, arafat. everyone thought he was going to be a left wing maniac. he was very pro business. he was very pro markets because he understood the future of south africa depended on the white business class staying there, being productive. interestingly, 27 years in prison he came out of an old left wing background. he didn't bust the budget...
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. >> yes, it was actually the night of the -- when they won, when the anc won, my mom went to a party in south africa, and he pulled her up on the stage, and you can see them dancing. great picture. >> very nice. martin luther king iii, thank you so much. appreciate your reflection. safe journey as you contemplate your journey to say your final good-byes to nelson mandela. >>> we'll talk about the latest job numbers. very encouraging in many circles. good news say some with more people going back to work, but is it the temporary fix, or are we seeing the end of a great recession? i'll ask former labor secretary robert reich. he joins us next in the "newsroom." thanks for giving me your smile. thanks for inspiring me. thanks for showing me my potential. for teaching me not to take life so seriously. thanks for loving me and being my best friend. don't forget to thank those who helped you take charge of your future and got you where you are today. the boss of your life. the chief life officer. ♪ are still high in acidic content. if your enamel is exposed to acid and you brush it away,
. >> yes, it was actually the night of the -- when they won, when the anc won, my mom went to a party in south africa, and he pulled her up on the stage, and you can see them dancing. great picture. >> very nice. martin luther king iii, thank you so much. appreciate your reflection. safe journey as you contemplate your journey to say your final good-byes to nelson mandela. >>> we'll talk about the latest job numbers. very encouraging in many circles. good news say some with...
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he embodied the anc's approach, their principles. but he wasn't the only one. during my time in south africa, especially in the late '80s, when apartheid still existed, i met any number of south african, leaders, rank and pile, who had been through terrible injustice. fellow graduates of robin island, for example. people who had been tortured or under banning orders. and almost to a person i heard similar words from them that we heard from nelson mandela after he was released from prison. and in many ways my love for south africa and my inspiration from south africans came from those years when mandela was still in prison, when we didn't even know what he looked like because there was only one old picture. he was the leader. he was the "avatar" of the movement. but there's much, much more, and he was standing on a firm base, firm foundation. >> you know, it's been surprising, mark, you know, on the one handle, this effort to sanitize mandela that we're seeing now, you know, i'm trying to make this kind of play around king, and yet also -- and this is maybe even
he embodied the anc's approach, their principles. but he wasn't the only one. during my time in south africa, especially in the late '80s, when apartheid still existed, i met any number of south african, leaders, rank and pile, who had been through terrible injustice. fellow graduates of robin island, for example. people who had been tortured or under banning orders. and almost to a person i heard similar words from them that we heard from nelson mandela after he was released from prison. and...
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the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists. it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they get hugely important things very wrong. our country from the president to the mr. president, every day citizens right now our country is mourning the loss of mandela, remembering the life he lived the way he changed the world. our country in the western world wasn't always this united in viewing mandela as a hero. a part tied, apartness in the africano language, they were voted into office in south africa in then 48. they set about passing a series of impressive laws of racial segregation. they western considered citizens. in 1960 when drarts went
the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists. it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they...
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the anc had been fanned anyway. people like fidel castro in cuba supported mandela. >> when he came out of prison, he spoke very loudly about my friend fidel castro. >> he's been condemned in certain countries for the so-called terrorism. >> here's the video. they embraced. >> mandela then made a plea to clinton in 1996 he said let us lift the sanctions that the u.s. has imposed against cuba. here is what clinton had to say. >> sometimes, he could be very serious and say i just don't understand why you don't lift the embargo. and i said, well, i think we were about to do it before they shot down those planes illegally in the brothers to the rescue tragedy. and then congress removed the right to lift the embargo. and sometimes, had was just joking about it but underneath all of that, there was mandela's fierce loyalty to anybody who had stuck by him personally and by the anc, the african national congress, his party, during his long 27 years in prison. and castro did. and mandela never forgot it. >> a fiercely loyal
the anc had been fanned anyway. people like fidel castro in cuba supported mandela. >> when he came out of prison, he spoke very loudly about my friend fidel castro. >> he's been condemned in certain countries for the so-called terrorism. >> here's the video. they embraced. >> mandela then made a plea to clinton in 1996 he said let us lift the sanctions that the u.s. has imposed against cuba. here is what clinton had to say. >> sometimes, he could be very serious...